So cofounders are difficult especially if youre not technical as really hard to find a good technical cofounder but the great thing is once you do and it takes a long time, they are able to attract the next generation of talent in to the company and thats how you kind of build your engineering team out. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper. So you know I think Axle Springer very used to appraising companies that match their scale. So all good companies have multiple offers on the table. So Anthemos, whats the business model here? But I will say the one thing is true is that you always raise on momentum. So strategically that was a good marriage where they had a great consumer brand and we have really fantastic supply side inventory. So that was great. So it was never I want to be an entrepreneur journey. In the first two or three years you will kill your marketplace if you create any barriers to entry from either side. So lets talk about Zumper here. You kind of just all in [06:39] I think where the carving of the rose start to happen for me around 10, 12 people where you no longer just have [06:49]. Since 2012, Georgiades has grown Zumper to over 200 employees, 178 million annual visits, and raised $178 million in venture capital for the company. So paradoxically, I dont think the core DNA of a companys culture is built at ski tracks or offsite. If you dont have those connections, I think this is where like a lot of these accelerators and incubators, Y Combinator or Techstars or Launch are really good where you can apply. So the way we monetize this is we either monetize the landlord mainly and we either charge them to leads. So I guess without further ado, Anthemos Georgiades from Zumper, welcome aboard. You can set the expectations and then see what happens and if its not a good fit upfront, you can go with the different option on the table. And we built this website using an outsource development shop in Europe that just tested one assumption of the end game which was can we get users in 2011, 2012 just as mobile was coming online to apply and close apartments from their phone. [06:54] the early days and it worked where there was just all hands to the pump. And even though that sounds so obvious six years later, people just werent doing this in 2011, 2012 and we created a bunch of data that overwhelming shows the renters wanted to be applying for apartments from their phone. Got it. Were very clear with Axle Springer that we have a lot of consumer scale so a lot of people use our platform on a monthly basis but were still building the [21:55]. Keeping good lines of communication open can solve many landlord/tenant problems. At series B, you got to show product market set across the board with the revenue and then at series C, you got to show real traction and real revenue and a proper P&L. They may not understand marketplace as well as you but they may be able to bring a brilliant way of thinking about how to bring the supply on [30:20]. But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. Never thought Id be an entrepreneur. ! Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. I was just talking to a friend of mine about this. Then behind the scenes, Zumper will close the transaction with the landlord and set the renter up with kind of rent payment. I mean I think at seed round its like an [26:02]. Were growing very quickly but none of that was true obviously in the first two years. Got it. I think just up front boundaries before you close the round is super important. So cofounders are difficult especially if youre not technical as really hard to find a good technical cofounder but the great thing is once you do and it takes a long time, they are able to attract the next generation of talent in to the company and thats how you kind of build your engineering team out. So Anthemos, theres always a first time and you know I guess this is the first time in the history of the DealMakers Show that Im able to interview someone that has been involve on the M&A but more on the buy side. The one unifying theme in every fundraising Ive run is momentum. It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. How flat is the company? Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. For us, I think they fully understand the entrepreneurial journey and were really excited to have them on board. And then at business school, I think the single biggest thing I learned through the case study method which is how they teach it at Harvard Business School but I think its true. Got it. Based in San Francisco, Anth leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Shalin Amin Chief Experience Officer. One is I wouldnt be too pressured about it too early. I met Russel who [04:01] engineering products through just the personal connections in London. How do you take a company with those tractions, 10 million in revenue. Well, Anthemos, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show. You always have more nos that more yeses in fundraising but it was ultimately about just hustling my network as much as possible. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry, used by more than 26 million renters last year alone. We both wanted to be entrepreneurs. And at one point I just told one I just feel like I want to step on the egg and shoot the chicken because it was so repetitive. I met Russel who [04:01] engineering products through just the personal connections in London. Alejandro: So I guess in just to like follow up on that, what in your mind and obviously in what youve seen creates really that magical relationship between cofounders? Anthemos Georgiades is co-founder & CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry. Great question. Get a custom action plan and all the help that you need to start raising more capital. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. You just cant get spooked. Anthemos Georgiades CEO and co-founder. I think just up front boundaries before you close the round is super important. Every company is completely different and theres no gold standard. And I mean its quite a few cofounders. So what is the best way, Anthemos, for people that are listening to reach out and say hi? In the early days you as the CEO you are the fundraiser, you are the effective CFO, youre the head of sales and you kind of have to do the whole thing. A lot of business schools was how to make decisions with imperfect information. They were [sexy 23:47] company and really fantastic fundraisers but the rounds just take a long time, due diligence take a long time. A lot of business schools was how to make decisions with imperfect information. How much respect is there? In many instances, really acquisitions are great to either feel growth on the company itself, either on the product or perhaps by adding a great talent, but unfortunately many M&A transactions fail really on the integration side of things. There could be investors who are fantastic. So lets talk about Zumper here. I mean if you could give some kind of like tips you know both fronts it would be really fantastic. Stay informed using all the free online rental data out there (like Zumper's national rent report). And you know I think hiring is definitely tough but retaining is even more complicated so is there any things that you for example seen yourself that work on that front? So Zumper is the vision for the company is to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. I didnt think that either of them originally. It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. Saying that, if you do have multiple term sheets the second point is of course, like before you get to liquidity, revenue is irrelevant and if revenue gets in the way of bringing either the consumer on to your platform or the supply side person on to your platform, you should not be trying to charge. I grew up in London. In terms of the dynamics, I think in the early days, you kind of through osmosis graduate towards like the things that are important. Alejandro Cremades leads the vision and execution for Panthera Advisors as its Co-Founder and. Like what have you seen that really works? I think at that stage it makes sense. Read More: Sujal Patel On Selling His First Business For $2.6 Billion And Now Raising $108 Million From Jeff Bezos And Others To Improve Medical Diagnostics. But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. Published by at June 13, 2022. Everyone in Boston, everyone in New York were straight nos and [25:15] didnt get second meetings but then a month later we came to Silicon Valley and we found a much better product market set for the kind of investor who was prepared to come early and invest early and we got a lot of yeses very quickly. We have like four people at the company for the first year or maybe five for the first year and so theres so much to do and theres so little time and few resources that you actually theres no real intellectual whiteboarding session that you do to carve out rose. Your job as the CEO and the founder is to convince your investors of the reason to do this. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry, used by more than 26 million renters last year alone. So in the first two years, Zumper is now [07:52] $90 million in capital. Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. Had worked at the Boston Consulting Group. It seemed crazy that the real estate industry wasnt moving towards on demand. [06:54] the early days and it worked where there was just all hands to the pump. Could you meet him? And so whereas that doesnt guarantee any success we obviously have to have really good numbers and a really good story to tell them. rex harrison audrey hepburn relationship. It was kind of [31:51] as early as we did to buy another stock up that was kind of four years in. So Anthemos, theres always a first time and you know I guess this is the first time in the history of the DealMakers Show that Im able to interview someone that has been involve on the M&A but more on the buy side. So you acquire not long ago Pat Mapper and how did this come together? We want investors who look at $100 million in revenue as table stakes but they wont agree to a billion. Rental listing startup with more than 26 million users. And investors love that story because its easy to believe that you can continue to do that. Alejandro: And talking about hustling the network, was there any because I mean those networks that you have I think the network of Harvard is really fantastic and then you know the BCG as well but is there like any process that you followed to really like leverage the network? Got it. Got it. You are going to get a bunch of nos so I wouldnt rule people out too early. Got it and before we actually dive in to the journey here, so consulting and. Im so glad I did it. So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? I'm so proud of my wife Lucy Georgiades and her cofounder Lindsey Nehls on launching their business Elevate Academy today. Its hard. Well help you prequalify renters and actually get the renter in to a lease, signing the documents, paying the first month deposit but well charge you a percentage of the lease fairly. They wanted to close apartments like they book a hotel and so took the status of like 35 different apartments we leased using the technology in San Francisco to VCs and said, Hey, were really going to rebuild all of this but heres some data that shows this really can work at scale, and thats how we raised the first million dollars from some of the names that you mentioned. He runs all the background of operation and he came from the real estate industry, two completely different background and neither of them was an obvious pick when I started the company at grad school. There could be investors who are fantastic. Anthemos Georgiades is CEO/Co-Founder at Zumper Inc. See Anthemos Georgiades's compensation, career history, education, & memberships. We love our investors. Its just part of the game and it doesnt [24:30]. I mean at the end of the day, building and scaling companies especially when youre at the early stages is all about survival and its all about learning to be with each other behind the trenches and really going to war and having each others backs. Got it. We envisioned a world in which a renter can find apartments, book in [tour 10:18], turn up the [10:21] and if they want to take the apartment pre-qualify, leave a deposit and book the apartment. Thats just part of the game. I was really impressed when because its not hard, its almost impossible to land VC such as Kleiner Perkins on literally your first financing round, the seed round. Its really built in the dark days of when stuff is really difficult and I think Zumpers culture now is we have a lot of users still remembers and its a testament to those dark days and we never take anything for granted. Had worked in politics. He was with HBS 10 years ago. Alejandro: Got it. Youre exactly right. You can filter down by city and . It was incredibly difficult. They are brilliant about. Retention is something I think about every day. You shameless have to mine your network and I think all CEOs and entrepreneurs have to find that edge of how did they meet one of these investors, how did they meet someone that knows them. And so when you think about AB testing frameworks, you think about how many started [03:43] that is a [03:44] grad school taught me. Thats quite motivating for people. Two sided marketplaces are so difficult. Im so glad I did it. Youll get terms sheets and yeses hopefully quicker than that but this process takes a while and as the money increases and a few rounds become more complicated, it can take more than three months as well. All of it is going to be important and it will come out at the right stage. Alejandro: Got it. Thank you so much. Tanguy Le Louarn Chief Product Officer. Got it. It was kind of [31:51] as early as we did to buy another stock up that was kind of four years in. Prior to his work at Zumper, Georgiades worked at the Boston . Anthemos and Russell met in London while working at a consulting company back in 2006, but it was after they moved to the U.S and experienced the pain of finding a place to live that they decided to found Zumper along with Taylor Glass-Moore and Leah Jones. How many listings do we have on the site? Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs, Anthemos Georgiades was drawn into startup life to solve a burning problem. Got it. So what was that process like you were talking about, yes, your network of Harvard but can you share with us like what was that process of landing Kleiner on your seed round? In the early days we love the exposure to Silicon Valley investors. To give you odds, at the seed stage and the series A stage of growth cuts, all about supply side where a two sided marketplace chicken an egg, on day zero you have no renters and no landlords, how do you solve that? Unluckily weve made some phenomenal early hires so the company that have all scaled to leadership roles, thats fantastic for retention because those people know that we could have hired from outside but we bet on them and it worked and so Zumper is a place to build theyre career not somewhere else. How flat is the company? For me, its Zumper, an apartment rental platform. Hello, everyone, to the DealMakers Show. And it is the culture that keeps people here, not the compensation or anything else. Got it. Just out of curiosity, Anthemos, like how many nos did you get for example on your seed round if you have to count it? Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. If you guys are Zumper website, you can kind of kind at zumper.com the Contact Us or on Twitter I am just @anthemos, A-N-T-H-E-M-O-S on Twitter and yeah, I respond to people. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. So for Zumper our vision as I mentioned was to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel and so instead of going in with just an idea, I built like a really crappy version of the end game that I wanted to build. Theyre both incredibly smart as are my executive team who are also like critical to fundraise where Ill go in and sell the vision often alone. Anthemos Georgiades: Hey, thanks for having me. So I learned a lot from a few companies that I loved, a few companies that I thought are doing crazy things I learned so much. And as you know as and your listeners know, youre going to get a lot of nos on the way. I kind of looked through in Crunchbase which connections I have into which fund. In terms of the dynamics, I think in the early days, you kind of through osmosis graduate towards like the things that are important. For us, I think they fully understand the entrepreneurial journey and were really excited to have them on board. At series A, you got to show product market set in a sub vertical. Obviously they knew and I think for us it was like telling Axle and the rest of our investors that there are going to be months where we massively beat plans and there will be months where were behind plans. Look how quickly our revenue are scaling. Yeah. The most important thing is to surround yourself with an amazing support group because it is so much harder to build a company than I thought it was and the emotional resilience you need to get through the dark days and come back to the bright days even now is what [38:54] just get harder like yeah, we have more revenue now but with that there are people [38:58] and like huge revenue targets we have to attain and so the most important thing is surround yourself with a network of family, friends, mentors, peers, your team, your investors, whoever is an emotional crutch for you where you can take from them but also maybe get back to them as well when theyre having a tough time, thats the single most important thing is look after your mental health because it is lonely and it is stressful and if youre able to kind of be resilient you have a great outcome but it is really hard on some days to push through, so build that around just [39:35] and you can be happy while running your company. You know its interesting that you mentioned the chicken and the egg. And then when I moved out to America, Russel was software engineer at Google and I had no technical background so I basically hit up my network for anyone with a technical background living in the US who might be interested in joining and Russel and I really hit it off and he was the perfect cofounder. But theres no right answer in business. It was like $46 million. Your third month is getting kind of diligence done and getting the wires in to the door. Got it. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah, sure. Retention is something I think about every day. Think Masterclass for Management. He's raised $39.2 million in venture capital, grown the team to 70+, and completed the acquisition of apartment search platform PadMapper. Back to Meet the San Francisco Business Times' 40 under 40 Class of 2018. So we want to be the first ever kind of full stack rental platform for long term leases and we monetize that two ways. So our CFO is fantastic and what he was able to bring to the series C was real credibility where I meet the investors, get them excited about our vision and our story and then they spend hours with the CFO on the second or third meeting digesting our historical financial as were talking about where were headed. He had actually interviewed me for a job at a different consulting firm and we stayed in touch. And as you know as and your listeners know, youre going to get a lot of nos on the way. And the biggest change in the series C I just raised versus in the early days is having a CFO. Now we have supply so the six months curve at the series B was all about users and millions of monthly users and then at the series C it was much more revenue curve. Culture is everything and so investing in people making sure I as the CEO spend a lot of time as much as possible with people who dont report to me is absolutely critical and that is ultimately like the fabric on how most companies are run. How do you take a company with those tractions, 10 million in revenue. And then as we looked at the C round, Axle Springer are fantastic good example [19:59]. So when you go in to a fundraising in terms of preparation the most important thing is that your last six months are great and your most important metrics are all growing really nicely so kind of five, six months in a row that is a fantastic story to tell to an investor. You kind of just all in [06:39] I think where the carving of the rose start to happen for me around 10, 12 people where you no longer just have [06:49]. I knew the CEO for a while. If you want me to help you with your fundraising, just book a call. So you acquire not long ago Pat Mapper and how did this come together? I think the startups end up wasting a lot of cash that could really extend runway but thats a different conversation. The other large investor in this round [20:05] scale so once you have product market set, how do you scale that? How many listings do we have on the site? Youll get terms sheets and yeses hopefully quicker than that but this process takes a while and as the money increases and a few rounds become more complicated, it can take more than three months as well. I knew the CEO for a while. So yes, we have a great cap table. . Anthemos Georgiades: Yes, weve raised $90 million in capital including a series C that we just closed three months ago. I mean I think at seed round its like an [26:02]. A lot of it was completely bottom up. So all good companies have multiple offers on the table. Whats your story and most importantly, how did you get started with the entrepreneurial bug? Vishal Makhijani President & COO. Got it. How many landlords did we have on the site? Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah, I mean BCG I think you get access to the 23 year olds CEOs who had been working for 40 years and kind of crazy in consulting you take the shortcut in your careers to being in the board room. Saying that, in the early days you kind of need to bring on all the capital that you can. There was no book [01:41]. And you know I think hiring is definitely tough but retaining is even more complicated so is there any things that you for example seen yourself that work on that front? Got it. Over time, its great to be able to bring in your team. Russell Middleton Co-Founder. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. So we have several million users using our platform every month now which is great and next year we wanted tens of millions of users a month and were poised to doing that. Thats just part of the game. Now we have supply so the six months curve at the series B was all about users and millions of monthly users and then at the series C it was much more revenue curve. So seed, series A, series B, series C, I was always the point person in the fundraise. Really good strategy to differentiate the demographics and were super happy with how it went down. And talking about hustling the network, was there any because I mean those networks that you have I think the network of Harvard is really fantastic and then you know the BCG as well but is there like any process that you followed to really like leverage the network? Got it. So M&A are strategic [33:48]. Alejandro: Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. So in terms of timeline, you were mentioning that the C round, you guys closed this 46 million a couple of months ago. But oh we must have had like 20 persons or 20 people say not now or later. anthemos georgiades net worth; wedding max minghella wife; private beach airbnb california; antique english double barrel shotguns; tuscany faucet cartridge removal; primeweld cut 60 machine torch; glendale, az setback requirements. How much respect is there? In the early days you as the CEO you are the fundraiser, you are the effective CFO, youre the head of sales and you kind of have to do the whole thing. In the early days, youre going to need to take all the capital you can get. You just cant get spooked. So for Zumper our vision as I mentioned was to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel and so instead of going in with just an idea, I built like a really crappy version of the end game that I wanted to build. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs, Anthemos Georgiades was drawn into startup life to solving a burning problem. The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. And it was just [22:11] during the process that its a startup, were at growth stage but not to expect to be able to predict our courses like that public company again. Thiel was the first angel investor in Facebook with a $500K check that turned into more than $1 billion in cash.
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